The Countess and the Nazis: A Q & A with Richard Jay Hutto
Months ago, a mutual friend introduced me to Rick Hutto. He thought we had things in common, including writing “lively, vibrant, deeply researched and highly entertaining historic narratives.” (That’s a compliment worth having!)
Rick’s latest book, The Countess and the Nazi: An American Family’s Private War is the story of an American heiress who traded America’s Gilded Age society for a title in Prussia’s aristocracy and later used her life of privilege as a foundation for resistance when the Nazis came to power. It is a fascinating addition to the growing genre of women who stood up to the Nazis, often at personal cost.
I am pleased to have Rick here on the Margins to talk about the book.
What path led you to the story of Muriel White, the American-born Countess Scherr-Thoss? And why do you think it’s important to tell her story today?
I’ve written a great deal about the American heiresses who married titled husbands. A few of those were love matches but most were cynical exchanges of money for titles. I came across Muriel who was completely outside the mold for women of her stature so I was intrigued by her. With very little help and support, she did everything she could to combat the rise of Naziism and her story needs to be told as it is instructive for the rest of us.
The Countess and the Nazis straddles two themes that have caught the public imagination over the last few years: the Gilded Age and women who resisted the Nazis. Why do you think people are drawn to these themes today?
The very name “Nazi” still evokes so many discordant reactions when we come across it. It is no wonder that thousands tried to escape from Naziism/Fascism but few tried to do so by staying within its borders as Muriel did to fight from within. She was the perfect incarnation of an educated, wealthy, and powerful woman who walked easily between the two worlds of royal courts and domestic responsibilities yet did all in her power – at great personal risk – to help people of all strata of society.
You have written extensively about American heiresses from this period who married titled Europeans. How does Muriel’s story differ from that of other women who took this path?
Most of her peers wanted a lovely life in a stately home with frequent guests, weekend parties, and servants to take care of all the demands of daily life. Muriel easily could have done the same but she took seriously not only her obligations to her family but to the families of servants who lived within her reach and depended on her for their livelihood. Even with years of research, I’ve never come across another who can match her efforts and accomplishments.
Many American women who married Germans supported the Nazi party. (In fact, the subject of my book claimed that were among the most fervent Nazis.) Why did Muriel take the path of anti-Nazi resistance?
From the beginning of her life abroad Muriel refused to take an easy path if her convictions led her to question authority and to make queries that were sometimes embarrassing to the recipients. She wanted nothing to do with the Nazis and their rigidity and cruelty. She was often advised to be quiet and not to cause problems and her persistence would eventually cause her lonely death.
What was most challenging or exciting about researching women in this period?
The most challenging was the realization that many of these women – particularly Muriel – would have been brilliant diplomats had they not been forced to defer to their husbands and fathers (and eventually sons). They were expected to smile and do what they were told even though their experiences uniquely suited them for a life of service. Her father and brother were ambassadors but there were no female U.S. ambassadors until long after her death.
What was the most surprising thing you learned working on this book?
The realization that all the money these heiresses had in the U.S. could not be accessed after their citizenship was lost at marriage and their fortunes in the U.S. were blocked. For many, it took years of legal battles and Congressional legislation to become Americans again. For Muriel, her U.S. passport was re-issued and she should have been free to leave anytime in the two years prior to her death had the Germans not confiscated the new passport and kept it from her.
Is there anything else you wish I had asked you about?
Perhaps the inter-connectedness of these woman and the family relationships of most of the royal and noble families in Europe. After a while, their family trees looked much more like wreaths.
****
Rick Hutto served as White House Appointments Secretary to the Carter Family and was Chairman of the Georgia Council for the Arts. A former attorney, he is an internationally-recognized writer and lecturer and has been featured as an on-air historical expert. One of his books was adapted for television. Hutto has written extensively about the marriage of America’s Gilded Age heiresses to titled husbands. See more at: rickhutto.com.
Rick may be reached at rick@rickhutto.com
Celebrating Independent Bookstore Day
Here in the United States, the last Saturday of the month is Independent Booksellers Day. (That’s tomorrow if you’re reading this on the day it comes out.) It’s one of my favorite days of the year.
Normally I try to celebrate by visiting my neighborhood bookstores. I’m lucky enough to have three independent bookstores within walking distance: the fabulous Seminary Coop, its more commercial younger sister, 57th Street Books, and (brand new and just around the corner from our house) Call and Response Books, which specializes in books by and about people of color.* I am very very lucky to have so many choices.
A bookstore visit always leaves me feeling a little better. I browse.** I scan the shelf readers—those cards on the shelves that tell you something about a book. I chat about books with the booksellers. I eavesdrop on other people’s bookish conversations. I check to see if my books are on the shelves. I check to see if my friends books are on the shelves. I sheepishly take photos to post on social media. I try to resist the temptation to buy books I don’t need.*** I give in to temptation and buy some anyway, which I justify by reminding myself that it’s important to support independent bookstores.
f you’re lucky enough to have an independent bookstore near you, stop by and show them some love. If not, you can adopt an independent bookstore somewhere else—most of them ship. Or you can buy your books through Bookshop.org, an online bookseller that supports independent bookstores.
As for me, this year I will celebrate Independent Bookstore Day in Los Angeles, where I will sign books for two (2!!) independent booksellers. I will be on a panel at the Los Angeles Festival of Books,supported by Mysterious Galaxy Bookstore, at noon. Then I will attend a Meet and Greet at the celebration at Flintridge Books from three to five. I’d love to see you if you’re in the area. It’s going to be Big Fun!
*There is also a university bookstore in the neighborhood, which is run by Barnes and Noble. I tend to forget it’s there. Which is probably a good thing for my wallet and my bookshelves.
**I must admit, my browsing muscles atrophied during the pandemic and I am still working to rebuild them. Perhaps more bookstore visits are the answer.
***I have enough unread books to keep me going for years.
Grace Drayton, Illustrator and Creator of an American Icon
Grace Drayton (1878-1936)* was a well-known illustrator and cartoonist in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries.
Drayton grew up in Philadelphia’s art world. Her father was a lithographer by training and a well respected publisher of fine arts books and reproductions.** She was one of seven siblings, most of whom had careers in the arts. She studied at Drexel Institute and the Philadelphia School of Design for Women.*** While at the Philadelphia School, she studied with artist Robert Henri, who actively promoted women to take up artistic careers.****
Beginning in 1895, Drayton worked as a freelance artist for a variety of publications. Although she first made her living drawing fashionable young women as illustrations for magazine stories and fashion pages, she was best known for what she called her “funny babies”— chubby children with big eyes, pug noses and rosy cheeks that she claimed were modeled after herself. (Personally, I don't see the resemblance.) Characters in this style included the highly popular (and now very collectible) Dolly Dingle paper dolls which appeared in the women’s magazine Pictorial Review and syndicated comic strips for the Hearst syndicate recounting the mischievous adventures of characters such as Naughty Toodles, Dolly Dimples, and the Pussycat Princess. Some comics historians speculate that she influenced early Japanese manga in the 1930s.
Her most famous characters were the Campbell Soup kids, who cavorted through soup advertisements beginning in 1904 and continuing long after Drayton’s death, well into the 1990s in fact. They appeared not only in ads, but in merchandise. They were seen as healthy and wholesome—exactly the image Campbell wanted to project about its canned soups. They were also modern, changing to fit each decade. In the 1920s they talked on the telephone, danced the Charleston, flew airplanes, and visited Egypt after the discovery of King Tut’s tomb. In the Depression years of the 1930s, they went to work as policemen, utility workers, and circus performers. During World War II, they sold war bonds and acted as air raid wardens.
Andy Warhol, move over.
*Born Grace Gebbie and briefly Grace Wiederseim. Because women’s names change. (Pro tip: If you want to make things easier on your biographer, don’t change your name when you marry.)
**We’ve seen this before. Women artists from the earliest days were often the daughters of father with careers in or adjacent to the visual arts. (In fact, the role of artist fathers is a recurring theme in Bridget Quinn’s book about women artists, Broad Strokes.)
***I have been fascinated for some time by these design schools for women, which sprang up in the mid-nineteenth century in industrial cities in the American north east. So far I have resisted the temptation for a deep dive. Now might be the time since I’m between projects. What do you think?
****Henri is best known as the driving force behind the Ashcan School of American art—a story for another time. (It’s a rabbit hole and parenthetical statement kind of day.)