Talking About Women’s History: A Whole Bunch of Questions and an Answer with Leslie Goddard
The women I interview for this series come to me from a lot of different sources. Some of them are people I know from writing and history groups.(Or Twitter. Don’t tell me that social media is a waste of time.) Some of them are friends of friends. I found Leslie Goddard on a list of programs sponsored by our bank. As soon as I read about the work she does portraying historical women, I tracked her down.
Leslie Goddard, Ph.D., is an award-winning actress and scholar who has been portraying famous women and presenting history lectures for more than ten years.
She holds a Ph.D. from Northwestern University specializing in U.S. history and American Studies as well as master’s degrees in both theater and museum studies. A former museum director, she is the author of two books on Chicago history and currently works full-time as a historical interpreter, author, and public speaker.
In her email to me, Leslie confessed that she had so much fun answering the questions that she got a little carried away.
Take it away, Leslie!
What inspired you to portray historical women?
My background is in theater. I did a lot of acting in high school and college, and my undergraduate and master’s degrees are in theater. But my career aim was to work in history museums, so I went on to get a Ph.D. in history and worked for abut 15 years in the museum work. One of my first jobs was at a local historical society, where someone found out I had a theater background and asked me to portray a famous local woman. That was the first portrayal I did, and it was fascinating to see how different it was from reading about a person in a book. So I created another portrayal, this time of Bertha Palmer, the Chicago socialite and philanthropist. And it was surprising how many groups wanted that kind of program. That’s what really set me on this unusual career path. Everyone I know who does historical portrayals gets into from a slightly different place. Some people start out as teachers or librarians or storytellers or actors.
How do you chose the women you portray?
There are a few criteria I use. First, it has to be someone whose story I find particularly compelling. If I have to live with someone in my head for a year – years, really – it has to be someone whose story is fascinating or unexpected or unusual or in some other way compelling. It doesn’t necessarily have to be someone who is a “hero”, but there has be some rich depth there. Second, because it takes about a year to put together a new program, there has to be enough interest out there among the general public to make the program popular. I’ve created some portrayals in the past of characters who I found fascinating – the temperance advocate Frances Willard, for example – but there just wasn’t enough demand to justify the work involved in researching, writing, rehearsing and memorizing a full-length program, so I’ve had to retire a few characters like her. I also like to have characters who reflect a broad range of historical eras and fields of expertise. The character I’ve done who is farthest back in time is the novelist Jane Austen. The character I’ve done who is closest to today is probably Jackie Kennedy. I have a scientist and author (Rachel Carson), an artist (Georgia O’Keeffe), a pilot (Amelia Earhart), a novelist (Louisa May Alcott), and so on.
Over the years, you’ve portrayed a number of different women. Do you have a favorite, or two?
It sounds trite, but it really is like choosing your favorite child. I always choose characters whose stories are compelling to me, so they’re all fascinating in my view. That said, there are a few I particular like performing: Titanic Stewardess Violet Jessop (I just like the way that script turned out), Amelia Earhart (personal heroine of mine, plus the costume is much more comfortable than many), Eleanor Roosevelt (another personal heroine of mine, and her story has so many great inspirational sides to it).
For the most part you portray women who are not forgotten. Are there particularly challenges in doing programs about women who people think they know something about?
Absolutely. I do mostly portray women whose names are well-known, simply because I need to make sure there’s enough of an audience out there to make it worth the time and effort of creating a portrayal. In the past, I’ve had to retire some characters who just weren’t well-enough know even though I loved their stories. The silent movie star Mary Pickford, for example. But when it comes to so-called famous women, there are usually sides of them we don’t know as well. I was reluctant at first when someone asked me to portray Jackie Kennedy, in part because I don’t look very much like her, but also because I thought she was too well-known. But I was surprised. Jackie Kennedy is remembered mostly for her fashion, her youthful elegance and her warmth as a mother. Those are all true, but it means sometimes that means we overlook what a skillful and diplomatic political wife she also was. She gave campaign speeches in Spanish, she fought to preserve Lafayette Square, she brought the best in American performing arts to the White House and on and on. A lot of what we remember about the public image of the Kennedy years – the youth, the glamour, the focus on the arts, historic preservation – was largely due to her efforts.
Which of your programs is requested most often, and why do you think that is?
It really changes every year. Most often, it has to do with something that’s timely. In 2017, when the musical Hamilton opened in Chicago, my portrayal of Eliza Hamilton was really popular. In 2012, which was the 100th anniversary of the Titanic sinking, I did my Titanic stewardess portrayal a lot. Last year, I did 47 presentations of my Betty Crocker lecture, which was both new and timely since Betty Crocker turned 100 years old in 2021. The programs that consistently remain popular, year after year after year include my portrayal of Amelia Earhart, my lecture on Marshall Field’s, my portrayal of Eleanor Roosevelt, and my lecture on Chicago candy. I think some of that might be due to programs that just came together well, with scripts that flow and stories that move to a satisfying ending. But they are also topics that remain universally appealing and that’s probably the main reason.
What do you find most challenging or most exciting about researching historical women?
Every woman is so different in terms of how much research materials is out there. Eleanor Roosevelt wrote something like 27 books and published a daily column six days for many years. She received 300,000 letters annually as First Lady. For her, it was difficult to winnow down a script to fit just an hour. Jackie Kennedy, on the other hand, never wrote an autobiography or kept a diary and she disliked interviews. The struggle there was how to get inside the head of someone who was so private. I like the challenge of finding primary source materials and then extracting from them a story that fits together cohesively and reveals something about a person.
Do you think Women’s History Month is important and why?
We sometimes forget how recently Women’s History month became a thing. It was only established on a national level in 1987. When I was growing up, in the 1970s, there was almost no women’s history in my school. I remember one children’s book about a woman – Helen Keller – and that was pretty much it. My high school American history textbook was mostly about politics and wars – two areas where women historically have been relegated to a minor role. One book devoted two paragraphs to the entire women’s suffrage campaign – a campaign that ended with the doubling of the American electorate, the largest single increase in American history. Things are much improved today but there is still a need to call attention to the often-overlooked contributions women have made to U.S. history. Part of the reason I do women’s history is because there is so much for us to gain as a society when we remember women’s contributions. Acknowledging the contributions women have made in so many areas – peace, social progress, equality – it’s the best way we can encourage and inspire women today to participate in society, to work towards peace, social progress and the whole full flowering of human rights and human freedoms. That sounds awfully lofty, perhaps, but to me, it’s absolutely true.
What was the most surprising thing you’ve found doing historical research for your work?
I’ve always thought of the “great people” in history as being somehow extraordinary in ways ordinary people could never emulate. But when you really look at life stories, most people are far more similar to each other than they are different. Yes, women like Eleanor and Jackie came from socially and economically prominent family, but they shared the same emotions everyone else did. Eleanor struggled with shyness as a debutante and self-doubt as a mother. Her first reaction at the news of FDR’s election in 1932 was to burst into tears. Jackie Kennedy worried she was a “dud” as a politician’s wife. Yet these ordinary people went on to do extraordinary things. It’s the fact that they share the same emotions as everyone else that makes their stories so amazingly compelling.
Question: What was your best-performing blog topic and why?
Here’s where I make an embarrassing confession: I don’t track stats on my blog. Every now and then I check how many people I’m reaching in total. Otherwise, I let it go. I realize that this runs counter to much advice about “best practices”. But I decided it was more important to think about individual readers and building real relationships. I love the fact that readers send me emails with comments on posts, ideas for posts, or just links to things they think I might find interesting.
That said, I think these Women’s History Month interviews are some of the most popular posts I run. Every year I hear from people who hope I will do it again. Music to a writer’s ear!
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Interested in learning more about Leslie Goddard and her work?
Check out her website: http://www.lesliegoddard.info
Follow her on Facebook: Leslie Goddard Presents
Read this article: Leslie Goddard, Historical Interpreter
Watch some video clips:
Eleanor Roosevelt: https://youtu.be/H_KBCJtrK-Q
Amelia Earhart: https://youtu.be/oBz5geNIbSA
Video profile: https://vimeo.com/76922882
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Come back tomorrow for three questions and an answer with historian Nancy Rubin Stuart, whose most recent book examines the (many) women in Ben Franklin’s life.
In Which I Share Some Cool Women’s History Stuff
One of the glorious things about Women’s History Month is that I find out about a lot of cool women’s history projects that I was not previously aware of. Some of them are specific to Women’s History Month. Some of them are on-going projects that get some attention because media are looking for women’s history stuff.*
With hat tips to all the people who are sharing good stuff this month, here are a couple of items that particularly caught my attention
1. The Smithsonian has decided to add a layer to Women’s History Month by dubbing March Women’s Future’s Month, with an exhibit titled #IfThenSheCan–The Exhibit. The exhibit is a a collection of 120 3-D printed statues of contemporary women who are STEM innovators and role models. The exhibit is in the long tradition of collective biographies designed to provide girls with role models, but I can think of some adults (including me) who would find it pretty dang inspiring.
For those of you who will be in the DC area this month, the exhibit will run through March 27. (And while you’re there, head to the Smithsonian Gardens and check out the exhibit on women and orchids. ** ) If you can’t go in person, I recommend you click on “Meet the Ambassadors” and meet the women who inspired the statues.
https://www.si.edu/womensfutures
(I’m pretty sure this one came to me courtesy of the Smithsonian’s “Because of Her Story” newsletter. Which is well worth subscribing to if you’re interested in women’s history.)
And speaking of the Smithsonian, the American Women’s History Museum, is scheduled to open in 10 or 12 years. But who’s counting?
2. The Women’s L Project has taken the standard Chicago L map and renamed the stops for women. I’ve seen similar re-naming before, and I applaud them, but the Women’s L Project adds an additional twist. Each stop is named for a woman who lived or worked nearby. Some of them are famous—Oprah Winfrey whose name is attached to the Morgan stop on the Green line, two blocks from Harpo Studio. Some are not—the next stop calls out Mary Wallace, the first woman to be a CTA bus driver. You can buy a copy of the map, or you can find out more about the women included on the website.
https://www.womenslproject.com/
(This one came to be courtesy of the two women behind the What’s Her Name podcast. Stay tuned for an interview with them about their new book later this month.
*This is the Catch-22 of women’s history month. I love the fact that libraries, schools, community groups and mainstream media are inspired to celebrate the achievements of women: the famous, the infamous, the forgotten, the erased. (There is even an official government website devoted to it. https://womenshistorymonth.gov/) I hate the fact that as a culture we still see women’s history as something apart rather than simply history.
**Dang I wish I could go to DC this month. Unfortunately, my calendar runneth over.
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Come back Monday for a whole bunch of questions and an answer with Leslie Goddard, who represents historical women in one-woman living history shows.
Talking About Women’s History: Three Questions and an Answer with Kim Taylor Blakemore
Kim Taylor Blakemore is the author of the bestselling historical thriller AFTER ALICE FELL and THE COMPANION, lauded by Publisher’s Weekly as “a captivating tale of psychological suspense.” She is also the author of BOWERY GIRL and WILLA Literary Award from Women Writing the West* for Best Young Adult novel, CISSY FUNK. Her upcoming historical suspense, THE DECEPTION, is due out Fall 2022 from Lake Union Publishing.
She is the founder of Novelitics, providing developmental editing, writing workshops, master classes and community to writers from around the US and Canada.
Outside of writing and teaching, she is a history nerd and gothic novel lover. She lives with her family in the Pacific Northwest and loves the rain. Truly.
Take it away, Kim!
Unlike many historical novelists, you focus on non-elite, and even criminal, women of the past, what you describe as “the thieves and servants, murderesses and mediums, grifters and frauds.” What types of sources do you rely on to create rich fictional characters drawn from social classes that are even less well documented than historical women in general?
I love writing about the outsiders, about women who live by their wits and ingenuity, whether criminal or not. I am obsessed with learning how common people lived, how the big and small events affected their daily lives. What they ate, how they farmed, what they bought versus made from scratch – and most particularly how a woman without means made her way in the 19th century world that I write about. So, research comes down to putting together a mosaic – mill records with the mill girls’ wages and hours put together with the bill from the dry goods store. A random news article of a crime matched with a map of the alleys and saloons and tenements.
For The Companion I needed to know where women prisoners were housed in New Hampshire in 1855 – and found both the Warden’s Reports in the NH State Library and actual trial records in the NH State Archive. For After Alice Fell, I needed the 1865 Director’s Report for the New Hampshire Asylum for the Insane. For my upcoming book The Deception, I located spiritualist newspapers such as Banner of Light, and read autobiographies of 19th century clairvoyants and those who exposed them as frauds.
A big trick is to get the archivists and historians involved. I will tell them the basic plot of the story, what I’m looking for specifically, say railroad routes, and then say “And anything else you think might be important or interesting.” The material that these professionals come up with is a gold mine – newspapers, diaries, letters, tintypes, poems. Incredible stuff. Detail by detail, I build a world for the women’s story.
The question every writer hates: what inspires your stories? Do you begin with a real-life incident or piece of historical data ?
I love this question! I have too many ideas, so it’s hard to narrow down and settle on what I want to write.
For inspiration, sometimes it’s a character I see or hear first, and I’ll free write a bit on that and see who they are. I write historical mystery/thrillers so there’s a crime, of course. And that can come from reading old newspapers from the period and my eye catches on some small, odd three-line article or a series of articles on a sensational “Trial of the Century” (there were many of those in the 19th century). Sometimes it’s while I’m driving along through the woods or along an isolated road and ask, what the heck would happen if…
Then I think through the what ifs and who and hows and eventually the whys. Though it’s in the writing of the novel that the why is most often revealed. Every character has a reason to do what they do – and the antagonist plays as much cat and mouse with me as they do with the heroine.
My current work in progress, Fragile Things, is inspired by a real event, the murder of a young woman in Connecticut in 1877 and the preacher who was accused of her killing and then acquitted. I say inspired because, as I work through the novel’s beats in my head, it has moved outside the lines of the real crime to become fully fiction. I am still heading back to Connecticut to research the original crime, the area, and get a sense of what happened to this poor girl. It’s very important for me to physically visit locations: walking the streets and woods, smelling the air, feeling the atmosphere, the give of earth beneath my feet, the time it takes to run or ride a horse from one place to another. I’m so glad the world is opening up again and I can replace Google maps and website searches with visits to historical societies and tour historical homes.
How do you walk the line between historical fact and fiction in a novel?
I write fictional characters, so the facts are generally kept to what is going on in their environment, some of which affects them and some which is just a passing article in the morning paper that will bring color and atmosphere and authenticity to the period. I was told once by Ron Hansen, who wrote the Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (and other amazing historical novels) that you cannot change a fact, no matter the inconvenience to your story. So you can’t move the date of an event to suit, nor put a real life character in a place they were not. Although…there are gray areas, places not written of, and spans of time unaccounted for. And there’s a lot of creative things that can occur during those times.
Another novel I’m working on, The Good Time Girls, features Pearl Hart, an infamous stage robber from 1890s Arizona. Who only robbed one stage and tended to make up her own life story from whole cloth and a more than a few stitches of lies. So, to me, she’s fair game for filling in those gray areas. She dropped off the record at the turn of the last century, so there’s a lot of leeway as to her actions, say, in 1905 Kansas. She was there then. But heck if anyone can determine what she was up to. Thus, the gray area and creative space for fiction. And then again, we write historical fiction, not biographies and textbooks.
Question for Pamela: What historical woman would you like to meet?
No one came to mind immediately. Partly because this isn’t the way I think. And partly because many of the historical women I most admire were prickly at best and absolutely difficult at worst. (Not surprising. As Jane Goodall is often reported to have said: “It actually doesn’t take much to be considered a difficult woman. That’s why there are so many of us.”) Sometimes it’s better to keep your heroes at a distance.
But there are a couple of novelists whose writings shaped my vision of what my life could be like: Dorothy Sayers and Mary Stewart. In some ways I’ve been in conversation with them for a long, long time.
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* In case you haven’t noticed, women writing about the west seems to be an unofficial theme of this year’s Women History Month series. And we have more to come. Here’s a hint:
[If you’re reading this via email, you will need to click through to your browser to see the clip.]
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Want to know more about Kim Taylor Blakemore and her work?
Check out her website: www.kimtaylorblakemore.com
Follow her on Instagram: @kimtaylorblakemorebooks
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Tomorrow it will be business as usual here on the Margins with a women’s-history- relatedblog post from me. But we’ve still got more people talking about women’s history from a lot of different angles next week. Don’t touch that dial!